Wang Fujui interviewed by Andre Morrison

A is Andre Morrison
F is Fujui Wang
Chinese text by Lu Yi

A：Let’s start with the roots of noise music in Taiwan. The only band I know from that time is, obviously, Zslo, and when I tried to find some information about them, I found out that the band was formed in some kind of nihilist underground. It was written that there were student movements against the government and the radical music underground was one of them, except they were against other student movements as well, so I get a picture in my mind of some nihilist kind of subculture. But maybe I missed something in translation. So please, tell me what was happening then and how you get involved in this.

F：In Taiwan, there were groups like LTK Commune and Zslo. With their Punk anarchistic spirit, they tried to collide with restraints in making music and in thinking. In 1987, with the martial law coming to an end, social movements proliferated. A kind of new-born and uncanny surge began to emerge. In 1990, the slow pace of political reform catalyzed the Wild Lily student movement. As college students at the time, we felt the immediate impact of an independent spirit of anti-establishment. The trend also directly influenced young people who made art, music and theatre performance. The emergence of “Noise” magazine can be regarded as a fight against the rigid and meager music system at the time.

A(A為Andre Morrison )：讓我們從台灣的噪音音樂的根源談起，在那段時間我唯一知道的樂團，很顯然地是零與聲解放組織(Zslo)團體，我試著尋找一些他們的資料，我發現這樂團是來自某種地下的虛無主義，資料顯示當時有些對抗政府體制的學生運動，與他們之一為地下激進音樂的成員，除了他們對抗其他學生運動，我腦中得到了一些虛無主義次文化的畫面，不過或許因為翻譯的關係，我沒有得到完整的資料，所以請告訴我當時他們發生的事情，以及你是怎麼進入這環境。

F(F為王福瑞)：台灣早期有濁水溪公社(LTK Commune)、零與聲解放組織(Zslo)團體，試著以龐克(Punk) 無政府主義精神，衝撞音樂/思想創作的束縛。1987年臺灣結束戒嚴，社會運動蓬勃的發展，開始瀰漫著一種新生、不安的騷動，1990年因政治改革的緩慢引發野百合學運(Wild Lily student movement)，我們當時剛好是大學學生，獨立與反體制的精神直接衝擊著我們，這股風潮也直接影響當時年輕人藝術、音樂與劇場表演的創作，“Noise”雜誌的出現可視為對當時音樂體系的僵硬與貧乏的反擊。

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A：What was your “Noise” magazine about? Only about noise music or there was something else? How many people were reading “Noise”? And how and when it came to an end? Sorry about a lot of questions, but it’s really interesting 🙂

F：”Noise” is a fanzine. I created it because at the time in Taiwan, it was difficult to get information about experimental music. Added my passion for music, I invited people with similar interests to contribute articles and began to publish the magazine in 1993. I also interviewed foreign musicians that I liked by emails and came to know many friends abroad. Coincidentally, we had the chance to release “Nothing To Hear-Nothing To…1985”, an album by The Gerogerigegege from Japan. It contains 56 minutes of “Harsh Noise”. People of the factory in charge of CD mastering thought there must be something wrong with the master and asked me to check. This is the first CD release of noise music released in Taiwan. We produced 500 copies, many of which were actually sold to or in exchange with the U.S. and Europe. And “Noise” also became a DIY record label. The 10th issue of “Noise” was published in 1997. In 1999, I released my first album, “Ching-Shen-Ching – 0.1.2.3”. Since then, I came to concentrate on my own music making. Since it was easy to access information from the internet, the existence of print magazine became relatively minor.

A：你的Noise雜誌是什麼？是只有噪音音樂或還有其他的東西？有多少人讀了Noise？雜誌如何/何時結束？抱歉提出了太多問題，因為真是太有趣了：）

F：“Noise”雜誌是一本同人誌(Fanzine)，主要是因為當時身處的台灣環境很難獲得實驗音樂的資訊，加上我對音樂的狂熱，所以邀請和收集同好撰寫文章，在1993年開始發行“Noise”雜誌，同時也以信件訪問喜愛的音樂創作者，也因此結識不少國外的朋友，在一次因緣機會下我們發行了日本“The Gerogerigegege”的“Nothing To Hear-Nothing To…1985”的CD，這張長達56分鐘的激烈噪音音樂(Harsh Noise)專輯，CD壓片工廠覺得母帶應該是有問題，還找我親自確認母帶聲音無誤，這是台灣第一張壓製/出版的噪音CD，總共壓製500張，不少張數其實是銷售或交換到歐美，“Noise”雜誌也成為自主出版廠牌(DIY Record Label) ，“Noise”雜誌在1997年發行第10期，在1999年出版我個人的「精神經」 (Ching-Shen-Ching)專輯「0.1.2.3」後，我將重心轉移到個人創作，當網路資訊愈來愈普及，實體雜誌的存在感相對不是那麼重要。

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A：Please tell me about the present of experimental art (not music, that’s another question) in Taiwan. In Russia we have a lot of conservative minded people who think that new art is an evil and it’s “against god”; and the government is also very conservative, so we have a laws that affected the freedom of expression in arts, cause else it “could hurt someone’s feelings or beliefs”. Yan Jun wrote an article about the similar conservatism in PRC. From info on your website, I know that you did a lot of audio\video installations or expositions since 2000, so I think that the “culture environment” in Taiwan is positive and new art is welcomed. Am i right?

F：Indeed, the cultural milieu in Taiwan is freer. Especially young people here embrace new cultures and arts. Among the audience of sound art exhibitions and performances, there are lots of young people. Also, many young people devote themselves to making, exhibiting and performing sound art. This is the main drive for my creation in this domain. Yet due to the limited resource in Taiwan, many elder people devoted their entire lives just to make a living and tended to ignore art and culture. For them, art-making was not a normal job. This is also due to the fact that artists confront more and more pressure on social legitimacy as they grow old. So the number of artists that are able to continue such practice in the long term naturally declines. Yet when I perform abroad in the U.S. and Europe, I often saw people of different ages among the audience whereas the majority of the audience is young people.

A：請告訴我關於台灣的實驗藝術（非實驗音樂，那是另一個問題）的出現，在俄羅斯有很多保守的人認為新藝術是種惡魔以及被視為「對抗上帝」，而政府也同樣地非常保守，所以我們有個法律去影響藝術中所要表達的自由，而有此法的原因是這樣會傷害某些人的感覺和信念。顏俊寫了文章是與中國政府的保守主義有關。從你的網站我知道從2000年你開始創作了許多影音的裝置以及展覽，所以我認為台灣的文化環境是積極的，以及較歡迎新藝術，我説得對嗎？

F：台灣的文化環境的確是比較自由，尤其年輕人對新藝術文化的包容力很大，聲音藝術的展演有不少年輕的觀眾，也有不少年輕人投入展演和創作，這是我從事這方面的創作很大的動力。不過由於台灣資源有限，不少的老一輩一生都只為經濟打拼，對於藝術文化較不重視，認為藝術不是正當的工作，這也是創作者隨著年紀增長面臨越多社會化正當性的壓力，可以持續長久創作的創作者自然就減少。但在國外歐美表演時，經常看到比較年長和不同年齡層的觀眾，在台灣則大都是年輕人。

補充：失聲祭：http://lsf-taiwan.blogspot.com/

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A：Maybe it’s a stupid question, but contemporary art is very contextual, so sometimes it’s hard to understand the meaning of an art object if you don’t have a “cultural key”. How do you deal with this problem? Are there any explanational boards on your exhibitions? Or you just let people construct their own opinion? 🙂

F：When sound art-making becomes more and more diversified, it is no longer pure sound making. Through combining different media and interdisciplinary collaborations, we can expand creative possibilities. But since exhibition venues are mainly for visual arts, discussing through angles of contemporary visual art might bring a different perspective. Yet eventually this leads back to the context of sound art-making. We’re still in urgent need of talented people specialized in discourse and curating in the domain. Also, in recent years, I’ve noticed that the visual impact brought by sound art-making to the audience and the attention it arouses are greater than brand new feelings and points of view that are provoked acoustically. My work this year will include minimum visual elements. Yet the sound depicts space and pictures, spaces that are very abstract yet full of imagination, providing a site for feeling the sounds, letting the public experience by themselves.

A：或許這是個笨問題，不過當代藝術是有關聯性的，有時候沒有一把『文化的鑰匙』是很難去理解一個藝術物件的意義，你是如何處理這個問題呢？有任何說明性的牆存在於你的展覽之中嗎？或你就讓觀眾去建構他們自己的意見？

F：當聲音的創作愈來愈多元，就不僅是純聲音的創作，透過不同媒材的結合與跨域的合作開拓創作的可能性，不過由於展覽空間主要還是以視覺藝術為主，透過視覺的當代藝術來討論創作，或許可以提供一個不同的觀點，但終將回歸聲音創作的脈絡，這方面我們仍非常欠缺專精論述和策展的人才，近年來我也察覺聲音藝術的創作，在視覺上給予觀眾造成的震撼/關注大過於在聽覺上給予的嶄新感受和觀點。今年我新的作品視覺元素非常低限，但透過聲音勾勒空間和描繪畫面，非常抽象但充滿想像的空間，提供一個聲音感受的場域，讓民眾自己體驗。

補充：文中F所指的新創作為：‘透明響像’ 王福瑞 個展
https://www.projectfulfill.com/wang-fujui-solo-exhibitiontransparent-imagery-of-sounds.html
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A：Tell me about your influences, please. I predict there will be a lot of american\european artists on the list. Your art to me seems somehow… german or austrian. Also, what about musicians, who have influenced you? Your different works show different influences, to me again, it’s not like I am always right 🙂 But I hear a touch of Ryoji Ikeda style on “soundwave communication” and some of your visual arts.

F：In my high school days, I spent much of my leisure time in finding all kinds of music that I liked to listen to and movies I liked to see. This was also the very first drive that pushed me to found “Noise”; such a process of seeking things, such experience also cast a great influence on me. One of my favorite films is “Stalker” by Andrei Tarkovsky. The unknown process of seeking is an important drive for me. During the early period of my career, it was between 1995 and 1997 that noise influenced my work the most. After listening to lots of clamorous noise performances, I came to listen to “Un Peu de Neige Salie”, an album by Bernhard Günter, where you almost hear nothing. The radical contrast brings great impact to the listening experience. On the one hand, noise always involves something radical, chaotic and a trace of anti-establishment. On the other hand, Glitch and Digital Error in digital music open up another window for me to seek something unknown. In 2002, Zbigniew Karkowski performed and lectured in Taipei, demonstrating how to open non-acoustic files (such as word files, executables, etc.) with Soundhack and take the results as the source of sound. The source is totally unknown and out of control; the creative openness cast a great influence on me. Until now, I still learn and experience as if I were a kid that knows nothing. I always think, “Noise, the very beginning when there was nothing at all.”

A：請告訴我你創作所受的影響，我預測應該有些是美國/歐洲的藝術家，你的藝術對我而言，不知什麽原因，感覺像是德國人或澳洲人，再者，有任何音樂家影響了你嗎？你不同的作品顯現出來自不同的影響，對我而言，我總是不一定正確，不過我在你的soundwave communication和視覺作品裡聽到了一點池田亮司樣子。

F：高中時期我課餘時間大多花在找尋各種自己喜歡聆聽的音樂和觀看的電影，這也是創立“Noise”雜誌最早的源動力，這種找尋的過程和經驗，也是影響我最深。我最喜歡的電影之一是俄國導演Andrei Tarkovsky的電影「潛行者」(Stalker)，這種未知的找尋對我是很大的驅動力。1995年至1997年是早期創作最受噪音影響的時期，當大量聆聽吵雜噪音的表演，再聽到整張專輯幾乎聽不到甚麼聲音的Bernhard Günter的「有點變髒的雪」(Un Peu De Neige Salie) ，極端的反差讓人在聆聽經驗有極大的震撼。噪音總是帶點激進、混亂、反體制的色彩，另一方面數位音樂的Glitch、數位錯誤(Digital Error)則開起我開放與未知的另一扇窗，2002年Zbigniew Karkowski在台北表演和演講，示範以Soundhack開起非聲音檔案(例如：文字檔或應用程式執行檔…等)來作為聲音的音源，這音源完全是未知也無法掌控，創作的開放性對我影響很大，直到現在仍以幼蒙的心態來體驗和學習，我一直都認為：「噪音是我一無所有的開始。」

＊Notes：
王福瑞 soundwave communication 專輯，為洪喜樂幫王福瑞發行的專輯，年代：2008

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A：Of your visual and audio components of art, which comes first? I mean, I know about your albums without any visualization (“soundwave communication” and your split with torturing nurse), and I am wondering if there are any of your visual works without sounds: paintings, sculptures…

F：Sound is the main medium of my art-making. In 2000, I joined Etat Lab in Taipei and made some interactive visual installations. But I still felt the most for sound art-making. So I concentrated on this kind of art. But what I do is more than pure sound art. I’d like to seek all kinds of possibilities of sound through different essays. For example, one of my works titled “Beyond 0~20Hz” takes sine wave frequencies between 0~20Hz that human can’t hear as its sound source. By using computer software to rapidly switching frequencies and volumes, I make analog loudspeakers produce wrong noise. This is an important step in my early period of making sound installations. More possibilities of sound-making were opened up through sound installations. As for another piece titled “Sound Bulb”, the point is simply the volume. Through a microchip, I control the volume of the feedback produced by small microphones and speakers. The sound of feedback sounds like the chirping of cicadas, bringing something natural. In my art, I try to put sound at the center. Using sounds or works related to sound is relatively more common in art-making now. In comparison, there are few works that really go back to sound art as a creative source. In my work titled “Sound Dots”, I use elements of sound and light. The work consists of a space containing 1000 objects spreading all over; the objects randomly produce sound and light. It is about an unreal feeling in a real space. I spent 6 years to realize the work I had dreamed and imagined. A recent piece titled “Seeing Sound” consists of images but without sound. The images are generated through connecting all kinds of experimental sound frequencies to the video input of a CRT TV. I visually re-think the pictures made through the experimental process and conceive imagination. The sound is not the point here; the piece involves visual representation only and no sound.

A：在你的創作元素裡，視覺和聽覺哪個為先？我知道你的專輯沒有視覺（soundwave communication，以及虐護所發行有你共同的各半專輯Torturing Nurse / FuJui Wang – Split Tape），你有無聲音的視覺作品嗎？例如繪畫.建築…

F：我的創作主要是以聲音為主要的媒材，2000年加入「在地實驗」(Etat Lab)，曾經做過一些視覺的互動裝置，不過後來我還是覺得聲音的創作最有感覺，所以之後就專注在聲音藝術的創作上，不過聲音的創作就不單只有純聲音的創作，我希望透過不同的嘗試找尋聲音的各種可能性。作品《超越0~20赫茲》 (Beyond 0~20Hz)，就以人耳聽不見0~20赫茲的正弦波音頻為音源，運用電腦軟體快速切換頻率和音量，讓類比的喇叭發出錯誤的噪音，這是我開始聲音裝置創作的重要一步，透過聲音裝置又開拓更多聲響創作可能性。作品《聲泡》 (Sound Bulb)作品，就單純以聲音的大小來創作，透過微處理器(Microchip)來控制小型麥克風和喇叭產生的回授聲(feedback) ，回授的聲音聽起來聲似蟬鳴，也帶一股自然的味道。在我的創作儘量以聲音為主體，因為目前藝術創作使用聲音或與聲音相關的作品相對普遍，真正回到聲音創作為根源是比較少的，作品《聲點》 (Sound Dots)首次使用聲音和光的元素，是一個空間中佈滿1000個隨機發聲/發光體的作品，一個在現實空間的非現實感受，我花了6年多完成這件一直在夢中想像的作品。作品《聲影》 (Seeing Sound)是一件沒有聲音的影像作品，這件作品的影像是透過各種實驗音頻接到到類比電視(Crt TV)的影像輸入端所產生的，我將實驗出來的畫面，重新以視覺思考來構成畫面，非以聲音為考量，所以作品只有畫面呈現而沒有聲音。

＊Notes：
About “Sound Dots”, see
http://goodluyi.com/?page_id=1469
http://soundwatch.blogspot.tw/2015/10/2015.html
About “Seeing Sound”, see
http://soundwatch.blogspot.tw/2014/12/sound-state-fujui-wang-solo-exhibition.html

＊Notes：
Torturing Nurse / FuJui Wang – Split Tape
https://huashanrecords.bandcamp.com/album/torturing-nurse-fujui-wang-split-tape

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A：Now about experimental music in Taiwan. I don’t know anything about this. Well, i know about you and a bit about Lin Chi-Wei and ZSLO. So i just don’t know what happens now in Taiwanese experimental music scene. Are there any music festivals, shows, big names, interesting people or bands? And do you feel the responsibilr its creation (maybe a big word, but anyway) ?

F：Since 1995, I’ve started to make music in the name of “精神經/Ching-Shen-Ching”. I was studying in San Francisco and met several American experimental sound artists I had communicated during the period I published “Noise”. I was particularly close to Joe Colley and learned lots of ideas from his studio and performing venues. “Harsh Noise” was a trend at the time and I experienced the limits of an excessive sensory stimulus in many venues of live sound performances. Thus I wanted to stimulate the human brain “nerves” through experimental sounds and images, and to explore an unknown spiritual depth. That’s why I began my sound art-making with the name “精神經/Ching-Shen-Ching” which combines two Chinese terms, “spirit”(精神) and “nerve”(神經). Among my partners at the time, Dino continues to make sound art. With simple equipment, he turns “No-Input” technique into magic. Lin Chi-We, Dino and I keep a long-term friendship on the road of sound art-making. In 2015, we were invited to perform together in the U.K.

A：台灣的實驗音樂是如何？我不知道任何一點，我知道一些你與林其蔚，以及零與聲解放組織(Zslo)團體。我不知道台灣的實驗音樂圈發生的事，他們有任何音樂祭？表演？大人物？有趣的人或樂團？你覺得他們的創作是如何？（或許很冗長，不過沒關係）

F：1995年我以「精神經」(Ching-Shen-Ching)為名開始創作，當時我在舊金山讀書，我見到不少之前在“Noise”雜誌通信結識的美國實驗音樂創作者，與Joe Colley較為熟識，在他的演出和創作地方，學習不少創作的想法，當時「激烈噪音音樂」(Harsh Noise)是一股風潮，我在眾多的噪音現場表演感到感官過度激烈的侷限，希望透過實驗聲響、影像來激發人腦的「神經」，探索未知的「精神」深層，所以以精神與神經兩個中文字結合的「精神經」(Ching-Shen-Ching)開始聲音的創作。在早期目前仍在創作還有Dino，他以簡單的器材將「無音源輸入」(No-Input)玩到出神入化，林其蔚(Lin Chi-Wei)、Dino和我三人在聲音創作的路途上有著長期的友情，2015年我們一同受邀到英國表演。

Note：
Soundwatch Studio consists of two artists, Wang Fujui and Lu Yi. Lu Yi was previously Wang’s assistant. After four years of training and learning, they decided to co-found Soundwatch Studio in the name of Wang Fujui with the expectation of taking part in more related exhibitions and performances together. In April 2015, they were invited to do 3 performances of exchange in the U.K. The first was the inaugural performance for “Shoot the Pianist-The Noise Scene in Taipei 1990-95 Exhibition” at the Birkbeck School of Arts University in London. The second and the third performances were carried out at the Centre for Contemporary Arts, Glasgow for Counterflows Festival and in Café OTO respectively; both performances also involved another two artists, Lin Chi-Wei and Dino。

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A：The last question. Is there a [modern] cultural connection between Taiwan and PRC? I know that Yao Dajuin is from Taiwan and he influenced a lot of musicians in PRC and now he even lives there. And you did this split album with torturing nurse, and it was released on Huashan recs, which is a Shanghai label, so my point is – is there any possibility of the ​existence of united Taiwan/PRC experimental scene? Or a hint of its possible creation? It’d be great, after all…

F：In recent years, there have been exchanges of sound art between Taiwan and China. Artists of the two places have been connecting one another. Yet since Taiwan is an island, it requires flights to travel between the two sides. In addition to the geographic limits, travel budget is also a question. So there are not so many exchanges, neither are they so frequent. The future plan of my studio, Soundwatch Studio, involves releasing my own sound art albums under my own brand and publishing related books.

A：最後一個問題，有任何存在台灣與俄羅斯之間最近的文化連結嗎？我知道姚大均是從台灣來的，但是他受很多中國音樂家影響，甚至他現在就住在中國。你與虐護的共同各半專輯，是由Huashan Records廠牌發行的上海專輯，所以我的意思是，實驗音樂有任何台灣/中國聯合的可能性嗎？或只是少量？如果有很棒。這就是全部了。

F：台灣和中國大陸近年來聲音創作的交流一直都在進行， 我們彼此間都有聯繫，只是由於台灣是個海島，交通往來須透過飛行，除了受限地理位置外，往返的經費也是問題，所以沒有太多頻繁的交流。我的工作室(Soundwatch Studio)未來的計畫是公開發行自己廠牌的聲音藝術唱片與相關書籍出版。